tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post3174158349261663745..comments2024-03-09T06:17:33.737-05:00Comments on With What I Most Enjoy: Women and MM RomanceMegan Derrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11416660733243387098noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-85295380776010540552018-07-28T05:07:50.336-04:002018-07-28T05:07:50.336-04:00This. So very much this. Your comment:
" W...This. So very much this. Your comment:<br /> " Women turn to MM to enjoy romance, enjoy stories, and sometimes, yes, to get off without the painful baggage that reading MF and FF often brings."<br />Explains exactly why I read MMR.<br />My journey to Slash began with Blake's Seven (Avon/Vila) and then to Star Trek (K/S) but as MMR moved closer to mainstream I found a genre of stories that weren't bogged down in the "Virgin/Mother/Whore" narrative that sits firmly at the base of most MF writing. <br />Even now, a quick perusal of romance books om [insert favorite book site here] shows an overabundance of tropes that fall into the above mentioned triumvirate with an addition of the Alpha Bitch class of female, most of which feed into the narrative that a woman's role is to please men, in one way or another.<br />For me, most MMR stories read as tales of people not "gender" and they often talk to the struggles of life where sex doesn't fix things. Yes, a lot of MMR can read as very strong pronography but some of the best MMR have little or no explicit detail... They don't need it because the story, and characters, are compelling.JustJeanettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506950927897948874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-39480686319215134692018-07-26T01:29:10.749-04:002018-07-26T01:29:10.749-04:00A few years ago I had a friend who, knowing my fon...A few years ago I had a friend who, knowing my fondness for rewritten fairy tales, strongly recommended Fairytales Slashed. I had no idea what slashed meant at the time; my romance reading was solely MF up to then. I fell in love with your writing and started getting everything you wrote. Now I have a number of MMR writers I look for, and I enjoy this genre more than the MF romances I used to read.<br /><br />For me, M/M and F/F romances are emotionally satisfying in a way MF romances aren't. The power imbalance is always there in MF romances. Maybe it's celebrated, maybe it's fought against, but it's always there, the big ol' elephant in the room. Take that out of the relationship and everything gets better. The stories are more interesting, the relationships more complex. I like ditching the baggage.Gwennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-13175501097464309662018-07-26T01:11:35.202-04:002018-07-26T01:11:35.202-04:00I'd like to offer a polite contradicting opini...I'd like to offer a polite contradicting opinion. I read most of your post, skimming over the parts I was already familiar with, as I'm an author who converses with some of the guys you've mentioned.<br /><br />I'm also one of the few who wrote his thoughts down in words, trying to separate my feelings as a reader (https://rjcastiglione.com/pride-month-part1/) and as a writer(https://rjcastiglione.com/true-colors-of-writing-gay-fiction-ownvoices-post-pride-month-reflections/).<br />I appreciate that you took the time to highlight some of the problems that exist in M/M and how, when we cis gay men encounter them, they are irksome.<br /><br />I would like to mention a few things you didn't raise. As a reader, I've found many of these M/M stories I've taken the time to read hound on very sensitive stereotypes that many of us endured when we were too ashamed or afraid to come out. I highlighted a few of those stereotypes in my post about me as a gay writer.<br /><br />During this point in my life, when I was still in the closet, I looked to fiction as an outlet, seeking out stories about characters I could relate to. At the time, I found tons. I sneaked my way into a gay bookstore and was inundated with stories that helped me figure out who I was, that gave me courage to break out of the closet, and was offered important connections to gay male authors I could reach out to discuss things.<br /><br />Now, though? Not so much. Because MMR can be very, very noisy. You've said as much yourself. <br /><br />I'm glad you recognize that problems exist in M/M fiction. In many cases, I find some authors of these stories present gay men in a way they would never tolerate for women. You seem to disguise this fact behind your dialogue on female persecution in history, rationalizing it because women find a safe space in these stories that sometimes come at the expense of gay men. I'm having a tough time rationalizing this. I don't see the reasoning behind rationalizing the merits of a story that uplifts one group of people who have faced hardship over another... that has also faced hardship.<br /><br />The one thing we share is the anger we feel as we struggle to be heard. Just as women have historically been ignored, so have gay men. We share the understanding of what it feels like to have our voices drowned out.<br />My main problem arises when I find that a lot of authors of M/M romance do not take the time to consider how some of the stories they write will be perceived by gay men in particular.<br /><br />I also must point out that your post possesses the same type of anger toward gay men that some of these gay authors have expressed, along with the idea that we have no right to raise our voices to express some of our frustrations because we are, first and foremost, cis men. This was just my perception after reading your post. My perception does not necessarily correctly reflect your intentions.<br /><br />In an ideal world, we could all get along perfectly. I see no reason why that's not possible. But given some of the things coming out of MMR today, it's difficult. From porn stars at book conventions (something some gay men wrongfully love, TBH), to stories that draw gay male readers back into very difficult times in their lives, to the simple fact that there's no author platform that can accurately distinguish both houses of work, these clashes are going to happen.<br /><br />And, it can also be said that the fault is not with just one side of the argument. Many MMR books feature white alpha males. To many of us gay men, that reflects the very real problem among gay men of body shaming, objectification, and rampant racism. And it is something women experience as well in traditional het romance.<br /><br />But in your seeking to escape that through MMR, you're not just avoiding it. You're shifting it onto us. And it doesn't feel good, especially as we continue to struggle with having the short end of the social stick with so many straight men and women still fighting to persecute LGBT people.RJ Castiglionehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198551769205553201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-8364195518475144282018-07-25T01:13:19.206-04:002018-07-25T01:13:19.206-04:00wow... this was a great read. Thank youwow... this was a great read. Thank youUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16666436812345921320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-47065547336803502792018-07-24T18:33:12.697-04:002018-07-24T18:33:12.697-04:00This is absolutely brilliant. Seriously, I was cla...This is absolutely brilliant. Seriously, I was clapping the entire time. You summed up so many of my feelings on this that I wasn't articulate enough to get across.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04378329916872442908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-67819587488275287272018-07-24T11:15:02.289-04:002018-07-24T11:15:02.289-04:00Thank you for this post and thank you for putting ...Thank you for this post and thank you for putting yourself out there again. Like other commentators, I feel like I have something solid to refer back to. This latest blow up has left me reeling. I've been in the business long enough. I should know better than to think it will ever change. Sue Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387224663998322405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-16368079336823400972018-07-24T08:50:32.973-04:002018-07-24T08:50:32.973-04:00Thank you very much for this post! I especially ap...Thank you very much for this post! I especially appreciated the bit about mpreg. I'm a white cis lesbian, and have honestly always been a bit freaked out by the genre, but your comments made me realize how truly ignorant I have been of the importance of it. You shed a lot of light on something I had rudely dismissed as a "kink I would just never understand." Thank you again for that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16239389771471507109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-32800228144970253202018-07-24T07:57:46.369-04:002018-07-24T07:57:46.369-04:00I'm a new writer and before I finished my firs...I'm a new writer and before I finished my first MM book I went looking for how the community felt about MM. I found the not so nice side. Luckily I stumbled on Jamie Fessenden post. And a good friend already in the genre told me to write. As a WOC the appropriation argument exhaust me because I think people are using it for things that it doesn't apply to. That was how I felt here. <br /><br />I'm so happy for this post cos I will definitely be referencing it anytime anyone ask why I read and now write MM!Darahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05435559167259606294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-1591310112742958402018-07-24T07:25:53.232-04:002018-07-24T07:25:53.232-04:00Thoughtful, studied and insightful, thank you for ...Thoughtful, studied and insightful, thank you for this post Megan.Mirrigoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01673606508071673506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-86084844375996435412018-07-24T04:56:25.341-04:002018-07-24T04:56:25.341-04:00This is a wonderful, interesting and informative p...This is a wonderful, interesting and informative post, thank you so much for writing it. Josiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15313398140717264732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-40995689585025366132018-07-24T03:32:09.549-04:002018-07-24T03:32:09.549-04:00This is a wonderful post. Thank you. I must admit ...This is a wonderful post. Thank you. I must admit I flounder at times explaining why I write what I write - I'm too used to being told that I *shouldn't* write MM as a 50 year old white privileged CIS het woman. <br /><br />It puts me on the defensive, and I'm not the only author out here with some small part of me feeling like I *deserve* to be attacked, and that I am doing something fundamentally wrong. <br /><br />So, thank you for this. I will print it out and keep it. Hugs you for taking the time to write this. RJ XXXXXRJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12451151020470211560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-31535054489288610332018-07-23T23:49:46.801-04:002018-07-23T23:49:46.801-04:00Thank you for taking the time to write this. Your ...Thank you for taking the time to write this. Your carefully constructed post sums up the entire genre, and problems therein, perfectly. It should be required reading for anyone interested in MMR!Morticiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17665928554901357823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-67329280753528560002018-07-23T20:59:02.754-04:002018-07-23T20:59:02.754-04:00This needed to be said, and it needed to be said n...This needed to be said, and it needed to be said now. Thank you.Ally Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474105387867981417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-46147275154921447482018-07-23T16:19:29.819-04:002018-07-23T16:19:29.819-04:00Thank you very much for this Post. I learnt a lot,...Thank you very much for this Post. I learnt a lot, not least that I am not alone in having problems with the usual mf romance. And that I am not alone being on the receiving end of misogyny by gay men. I remember being completely shocked the first time. I naively thought us on the same side. Best wishes from Berlin Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02159685620569410279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-60304360562836475762018-07-23T14:46:39.974-04:002018-07-23T14:46:39.974-04:00Thank you for this thoughtful and educational post...Thank you for this thoughtful and educational post. Your concise explanation of why many women read MMR really hit home for me: "For many women, MM is a way to explore and enjoy their sexuality without all the baggage that comes with being a woman." YES. Elizabeth Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4762586062231622966.post-92138053143432597072018-07-23T11:10:09.003-04:002018-07-23T11:10:09.003-04:00Thanks so much Megan for your thoughts.
I am a ci...Thanks so much Megan for your thoughts.<br /><br />I am a cis het woman, who has never been comfortable with the perception of women in the Mills and Boon type stories I grew up with.<br /><br />Finding MM romance gave me a lovely escape, time to relax and an enjoyable happy ending.<br /><br />I have good relationships with people of all genders and a few women have thought me strange for liking the literature I do, and it is certain that romance is looked down on as a genre, but there was a time in my life when those stories - yours including - were life savers and I cannot thank you all enough, that when I was in tiny pieces struggling to survive, those stories of men, some broken or damaged by past hurts, some not. Some unloved and some loved and adored could find strength in a partnership of love in so many variations, kept me going through the dark hours and gave me enough hope that there was good in the world.<br />Thanks again,Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08326370007446615003noreply@blogger.com